In search of throttle response...

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:18 pm

Well; As you guys have known I have been playing with a bunch of different setups... maybe it's just my timidness of playing with tip-in retard, and other ignition related features without having access to a dyno or knock detection aside fromt he butt dyno and 2 ears. ANyways, I have been in need of some more throttle response; especially at lower R's, and am looking for my WOT rev-up fromidle to be a lot snappier. It takes about 3-5 sec to rev up normally... The OEM engine is more responsive than this, but I have seen much better too. Can some of the tuners out there give some insight to me (and the rest of us) about how to get a snapper rev-up? I myself have not found any solid info or advice yet... as tuners are very scarce in my area, and this is a subject in tuning that isn't touched on by many people. To sum it up in my friend's words I am looking for \"Streetbike revability\", but without being excessive on timing, especially as I have a JRSC so I see 6PSI instantaneously. This goes for all driving conditions, but mainly at a stop/idle. I just myself don't want to expirament with too much timing without a dyno, but am interested in some guidelines to follow so I can begin the quest. Thanks!

Civicman86 · Post by **Civicman86** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:07 am

I'd like to hear some ideas on how to quicken the response via tuning, but you might also look into a lightened flywheel. It helped my car alot.

Civic Tsi · Post by **Civic Tsi** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:05 am

Let me get this straight, you have 6psi instantaneously and you want more throttle response ???

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:09 pm

Civic Tsi wrote:Let me get this straight, you have 6psi instantaneously and you want more throttle response ???

haha....

Let me explain: Well; let me just say that under 2,500 RPM's, my timing maps are at ZERO for 6PSI; that's the OEM value... and it's gutless as all hell till it gets to near 3K.... you can see the RPM's ramp in the log with IGN; but I myself don't want to blindly add 10-15Deg of timing to the low RPM maps... If I am sitting at idle while not moving; and I stab the gas, it takes 2 sec to rev up past 3K....n that is not responsive in my book. The OEM tune on OEM injectors worked better than that. I have already settled out my tip-in issue; but the tip-in retard tables arent used at idle; so something is amiss and needs to be adjusted.

Adam Hopkins · Post by **Adam Hopkins** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:01 am

A Lot of that has to do with airflow in your engine, See when you put that turbo on the exhaust you blocked the engines ability to breath freely. You added back pressure. Same thing goes with the supercharger, Your not spinning those blades fast enough to create boost until about 2000-2500 before it makes boost right? That is why you only see those \"bike like\" engine revs when you see a Honda that has been setup like a bike ex. ITB'S and a huge header. The air in those engine go straight on and then straight out, nothing stopping flow, Does that make sense?

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:56 am

Adam Hopkins wrote:A Lot of that has to do with airflow in your engine, See when you put that turbo on the exhaust you blocked the engines ability to breath freely. You added back pressure. Same thing goes with the supercharger, Your not spinning those blades fast enough to create boost until about 2000-2500 before it makes boost right? That is why you only see those "bike like" engine revs when you see a Honda that has been setup like a bike ex. ITB'S and a huge header. The air in those engine go straight on and then straight out, nothing stopping flow, Does that make sense?

Sorta; but I am actually seeing 6PSI when I mash the gas from idle... instantaneously.. R's take a sec to climb then skyrocket... here's a screenshot from a log where I was adding timing to the maps to get better response:

You can see how long of WOT it takes to rev... rediculous IMHO.[/img]

boostedsol · Post by **boostedsol** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:42 am

another thing with throttle response on this engine, i feel it would be hard to get the response down low you want especially having the JRSC on there. The JRSC is putting quite the load on the engine thus making throttle response alittle laggy, know what i mean here. if that didnt souns quite right im sorry, its 435am and i am sittin at work.

David974 · Post by **David974** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:20 am

Agree i've removed my JRSC (B18C)for porting and LHT intercoller since i did remove it the car is rev better in low rpm the range of 1000 to 2200 rpm the car feel stronger and faster SC add lag it start to be efficient at 23OO rpm i'm thinking about changing flyweel soon in hope it will help

98vtec · Post by **98vtec** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:04 pm

what kind of ignition timing are you running? e85 a possibility for you?

Post by **Bugermass** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:18 pm

you could always experiment with advancing the and retarding the dizzy physically, then ofsetting timming in the maps.. This will affect your injector phasing and may increase or decrease throttle responce. Mabey somday calvin will stumble over the injector phasing table

..

Bindegal · Post by **Bindegal** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:25 pm

Mmmmmm injector phasing. There has to be a table somewhere to control this! /Allan

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:06 pm

yeah, I have found 10-15deg of timing gets the low end revability back, but that is a little much. On my buddys Saturn ION redline; it gets great low end revability... mine is just lag.... ugh.

98vtec · Post by **98vtec** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:23 pm

can you send me your map? i am interested in seeing what you have done with the timing. blakesvtec (at) yahoo.com also, have you tried reading your spark plugs while advancing the timing until the ground strap shows negative effects?

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:00 am

The map is horrible I really don't want anyone seeing what a jigsaw puzzle I am running right now

; but here's a screenshot of the timing I am trying out; by reviewing my log, I have seen a big jump in HP (revability) when the ignition jumps from the 0's and 2's to the 9 deg range, so I have tried basically filling in those ranges with appropreate higher values... I slowly stepped it up to this point; car pulling harder and harder with every degree... didn't seem to peak out yet, probably need to start adding more in some spots.

No pinging yet (kinda odd since I am running 89 oct), and it has helped some; feels like it is 1/2 way to it's potential. I can definately feel and see a jerking in the logs as the timing values step up during a WOT pull fron near 1.5K in 3rd gear. And I have seen the charger putting out the full .5BAR, instead of just under (5.5-6PSI). When testing this while sitting and revving, I would notice the RPM's pick up sequentially in the after-log as I added the timing thru the RPM range across the MAP range. Side note this probably is reminding me of the 10 or so degrees I would have to add to my maps when I had problems before getting ignition in time. But; my base is correct, and this is different.

Post by **Gaskleppie** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:13 am

I did a test with injector phasing long ago. I had turned the dizzy about 10 degrees in advance and made the maps 10 degrees lower. So the idle was still on 16 degrees with the dizzy 10 degrees in advance. I tested this on a dyno and found out that in low revs you can win quiet a few hp but above 5K the lines are exactly the same. So it can help with throttle response, but at high RPM, it doesnt do much.