My HHO Cell

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:01 pm

See you can use the ECU PWM, Just don't use an electrolyte, or use very little as to not raise the amperage drawn; I have noticed in situations of using a slight amount of electrolyte, production increases alot; but when adding more electrolyte the production doesn't seem to increase as much; more of going towards higher voltages and less amps. doing the math whether this adds or takes from the overall energy source is besides the point right now.... I am working on CAD'ing a huge array that would take up the fuel tank in a vehicle; but there are sooooooooo many things to consider like I will need over 500LPM just to be able to sustain 60MPH..... (calculated by BTU consumption) As a supplemental system like I would like it to be, It would draw no more than 2-10 amps, and still produce enough to help in the efficiency range that cars suffer most: below 25MPH... this could add up in the long run... but first I want to figure a way to break 100LPH without the machine being monstrous.

HiProfile · Post by **HiProfile** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:09 am

Are there any conclusive experiments done on this? All of the ones on the interweb seem to be very narrow/subjective - only a few tanks of fuel. You really need to add it to a car in which the user doesn't really know the benifits, and run a multitude of tanks/runs with it working. There are too many variables that can alter fuel consumption on a single (or handful) of runs.

xenocron · Post by **xenocron** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:53 pm

HiProfile wrote:Are there any conclusive experiments done on this? All of the ones on the interweb seem to be very narrow/subjective - only a few tanks of fuel. You really need to add it to a car in which the user doesn't really know the benifits, and run a multitude of tanks/runs with it working. There are too many variables that can alter fuel consumption on a single (or handful) of runs.

Exactly...no one has posted a clear, decisive example of a SAFE Cell, that makes more power than it takes to make (impossible really). I agree while this could work well, and be tuned for, I would really suggest whoever runs a cell like this upgrade there alternator and keep a log to see how long their battery lasts under that kind of load.

elevation · Post by **elevation** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:18 pm

xenocron wrote:
HiProfile wrote:Are there any conclusive experiments done on this? All of the ones on the interweb seem to be very narrow/subjective - only a few tanks of fuel. You really need to add it to a car in which the user doesn't really know the benifits, and run a multitude of tanks/runs with it working. There are too many variables that can alter fuel consumption on a single (or handful) of runs.
Exactly...no one has posted a clear, decisive example of a SAFE Cell, that makes more power than it takes to make (impossible really). I agree while this could work well, and be tuned for, I would really suggest whoever runs a cell like this upgrade there alternator and keep a log to see how long their battery lasts under that kind of load.

I,ve always thought if you had a second deepcycle battery that charged normal but is used to run a cell just @ idle and turn off the injectors, that you could get it to idle for 10 min or so.? instead of trying to supliment all the time.

Post by **Bugermass** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:55 pm

you don't need any of that.. built properly and setup right the cell I've made will make 1.6LPM of HHO and will not draw over 20 amps at max water temp. I\"m still trying to find one missing thing and I'll be testing it and I'll make vids for you guys to check out.

Post by **Synoptic** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:23 am

I have 2 people that will come on the dyno to test some magic gas saver. We will monitor closely the physical amount of fuel taken vs the INJECTORS DUTYCYCLE using and oscilloscope. Will also monitor exhaust gaz with an anylyzer. There is one guy coming with an lelectrical devices that bends the nitrous molecule in the air around the engine to let more oxygen pass into the engine. the second will come with an HHO cell.

Orthello · Post by **Orthello** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:20 am

Bugermass wrote:you don't need any of that.. built properly and setup right the cell I've made will make 1.6LPM of HHO and will not draw over 20 amps at max water temp. I"m still trying to find one missing thing and I'll be testing it and I'll make vids for you guys to check out.

1.6LPM of HHO @ up to 20Amps? Any idea how hard an engine needs to work to keep an alternator at 20amps? In other words... is 1.6LPM of HHO enough to keep the engine (thus alternator) running to generate 20amps? As far as I know it should be 'self sustaining'-ish to be helpfull, else it'll cost you fuel instead of saving fuel. It's just a question, as I'm not an expert in HHO cells.

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:30 pm

There is always the alternate that JNLabs did; He ran a device similar, but it was carbon rod and stainless sticks in a small package underwater... used a stick welder for the reaction, and hooked it all up to a generator. Reactor powered the stick welder, and welder powered by generator... I believe for small displacement/RPM, a few LPM would be enough to keep it running/idling. And that's when hot; if you can temperature control the unit somehow; it will draw waaaaaay fewer amps; and output won't be hindered that much.

Post by **Bugermass** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:44 pm

Theres a big missconception going on here about what HHO injection is doing, and I think thats the reason ppl don't get it.

xenocron · Post by **xenocron** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:47 pm

Bugermass wrote:Theres a big missconception going on here about what HHO injection is doing, and I think thats the reason ppl don't get it.

Not that difficult to get... You are using electrical power to separate H20 (water) into (1) H2 (hydrogen) molecule and (2) 02 (oxygen) molecules and then introducing them into the chamber where they ignite (along with other fuel and air) and combine back together to form water as a by product... The question is, does it take more power to separate the water into Hydroxy gas, than it produces? And is it safe?

Post by **Bugermass** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:25 am

yea you guys got the electrolosys part figured out, but not the why it gets better fuel economy part, and whats actually happening in the engine. Can anyone figure it out???

butch11a · Post by **butch11a** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:23 am

ok,i'll take a shot at this, could it be that when the hydrogen and o2 burns forming water, well yes you get a little boost from that, but maybe the water formed in the combustion chamber helps in sealing the cylinder wall and rings, thus improving efficiency....and like water injection also lowers the chances of detonation, thus allowing more timing...i wonder which would be better, this or a water injection system....don't know if a water injection system also increases mileage...

Orthello · Post by **Orthello** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:25 am

butch11a wrote:could it be that when the hydrogen and o2 burns forming water, well yes you get a little boost from that, but maybe the water formed in the combustion chamber helps in sealing the cylinder wall and rings, thus improving efficiency....

Like you said yourself... wouldn't it be way easier to just inject small amounts of water?

Post by **Bugermass** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:03 am

My theory to why HHO injection improves fuel economy: Ahhhh dang it I have to go to work.. I'll write it later..

elevation · Post by **elevation** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:18 pm

Well I know thet hydrgen has a wide flashpoint so it should'nt improve the octane level and may cause super lean conditions under decel where it may be better to have no fuel at all because of oxidation.