My HHO Cell

Post by **Bugermass** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:06 am

This is my HHO Cell i've been working on.. I still have to order some catalyst before I can start her up and see how she blows.. Here are some pics for now..

Post by **Bugermass** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:07 am

The construction is kinda shitty, but I just wanted to get it done so I can test it.. If it works at all, I'll concentrate on making a better more precise version..

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:21 pm

It looks like your on the right track; My friend had a huge container full of stainless scarp... I found some cool stainless tubes, pipes, fittings, and brackets.... plenty to make a good cell from. One part I personally am going to implement, is a secondary water cell; that has a pump cycling the fresh (cooled) water through the cell... this way overheating will be less of an issue, and the flow of the water through the cell will help the bubbles to detach from the cell quicker... hopefully this will help efficiency. I would expect a healthy sized cell, producing enough gas will allow up to 10MPG more when running; and the beauty is all you need to do is start a new tune (with the system hooked up) and use a GPO to activate a solenoid letting the gas into the intake when the load is above idle.... this way no gas is being used at idle, and it can be more precisely be controlled. Something even better; is if you could add a system to allow the engine to put it's vacuum to the cell's system... I have watched and read up on some research that shows greater production under a vacuum. What are you using for an electrolyte? I plan to not use any electrolytes as to keep the cell from calcifying (you know what I mean, this was spoken generically), or building up garbage material on the cell during use. And lastly, one cell design I wanted to try was to bend 2 sheets of stainless in a sprial configuration... and test different spacing of plates. This way only 2 plates are needed, and the configuration allows the best surface area for HHO generation..... but who knows at this point. With your cell, are those neutral plates your using?

98vtec · Post by **98vtec** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:54 pm

purpose?

danny · Post by **danny** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:14 am

interesting...i've never heard of HHO before this thread..i just did a search for it...pretty cool stuff...

Post by **Bugermass** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:25 am

This cell design has been run for 6 hours without pulling more than 20 amps and is good for about 1.6Liters Per minute.. If you want more info I can give details.

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:22 pm

Nice work; I was actually able to generate a bubble every 5 seconds with just 12V@200ma, no electrolyte(addatives)... just straight water from the tap. Using 3 3/4\" SS washers; I just ziptied around them to keep them seperated and together, then twisted some copper wire around them... rigged a sobe bottle with a tube fitting and hose (air tight) and presto... test worked... nice loud quick pops from the gas. I plan to make a unit that will fit in the battery location; and use a sump reservoir with a pump, so I can cycle through a filter and also have a chance to cool (engine bay temps, etc all contribute towards the water evaporating instead of being converted). I must say; the copper wire nastified the water pretty quick; but it doesn't seem like any of this scum sticks to any surfaces, so it should filter out nicely.

Post by **Bugermass** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:36 am

I'm trying to buy potasium hydroxide but no one will sell it to me cause they only sell it to businesses. Freakin gay.. I'll figure somthign out..

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:12 pm

I've got a crazy idea; why can't the PWM output from the ECU be used to drive the cell? I know the cells don't need many amps at all to work, and I am sure if something small was implemented it could easily use the PWM from the ECU... This could almost be useful across the RPM range; PWM adjusting allowing more or less generated gas through the RPM's; helping the gas flow be more linear to engine operation....

Post by **Bugermass** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:28 pm

I think the cell requires more current than the the ECU could put out. Also theres a very small window of frequencies that are optimal, the optimal freq seems to be most affected by water temp. So it would be pretty complicated to do that with eCtune I think. This is better done on the side.. I actually have a really crazy idea thats been nagging me, once I get the KOH I'll be able to test the idea. But basically I have an easy way to get high current/voltage PWM easily.. It uses somthing that some of us already have in are cars

.. All I need is somthing to generate the source freq(simple tone generator) with a max amplitude of about 2volts..

greasemonkee · Post by **greasemonkee** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:44 am

You don't need electrolyte, you need surface area.

Enough Brown's to have a big explosion in a short time.

Bindegal · Post by **Bindegal** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:07 am

Does anyone have first-hand experience with the results from this? Perhaps HHO could be the next big tuning opportunity... IÂ´m thinking : turboÂ´d 170HP Vtec-E with HHO and insane fuel economy as a daily driver... mmmmm! /Allan

Orthello · Post by **Orthello** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:40 am

What about the first law of thermodynamics?? What happens in an HHO cell, is just a plain simple electrolysis of water. The result is nothing less then a 1:2 oxigen/hydrogen mixture (which is very flamable/explosive) Remember the LZ129 'Hindenburg' Zippelin? Hydrogen also is just an energy 'carrier' and not an energy 'source'!! The production of 1 kg of hydrogen from water needs 144000 kj of energie. (in an ideal situation!!) In terms of elektricity, 144000kj is simular to 40KWh (144000kj / 3600s) 1KW = 1.341 BHP So, to produce 1kg of hydrogen you'll lose 54 bhp during one hour, or 27 bhp during two hours, etc. Ok... now we have 1 kg of hydrogen. What can we do with 1 kg of hydrogen? Well... we can inject it into the intake to make it part of the internal combustion of the engine. What does it bring us during combustion? Burning 1kg of hydrogen gives us 142000 kj of energy. (in ideal situations!!!) In terms of elektricity 142000 kj is simular to 39.5KWh So.... burning 1kg of hydrogen gives us 53 bhp during one hour, or 26.5 bhp during two hours. Etc. Ok... now see what the equation brings us.... In ideal situations the energy levels (used vs delivered) are more or leass equal. So in an ideal situation you'll get a milage which isn't worse (nor better) then it was. But... electrolysis isn't ideal. It is 85% efficient. So during the production of hydrogen from water you lose 15% because of generated heat and other loses. Also the combustion of hydrogen isn't ideal. It is 83% efficient. So during de combustion, another 17% is lost. So the overall efficiency of the HHO cell will be something like 70%. ERGO.... this HHO cell will COST fuel. I wouldn't say it cost you 30% milage, but it is certanly NOT giving you a better milage. Hydorgen is just an energy storage. So... the energy is 'gives' you, is more or less the same amount of energy it takes to produce it. Even when you buy pure hydrogen in a bottle, it only delivers you the energy it already took (the factory) to produce it. The energy most be payed for. So maybe you save some money on petrol because of the hydrogen injection, but buying the prefab. hydrogen will cost you a fortune. BTW. Hydrogen can be produced by electrolysis of water (DUH) or by heat treating methane gas. It's a cool cell you created there, but the way you're going to use it, I'm absolutely NOT convinced that it will be good for your milage (read: saves you money)

Post by **Bugermass** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:18 pm

you all have it wrong.. Watch and I'll show you as soon as I find a supply of KOH..

Post by **Bugermass** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:19 pm