non-vtec d series, higher rpm needed

danz · Post by **danz** » Thu May 28, 2009 2:58 am

hey all. i got a d16a6 and i would like to be able to tune it up to 9500rpm. the ecu is a p28 equivalent. i thought i would be able to run a d16z6 map and disable all the vtec checks and just have it switch maps, and do things that way... but it doesnt seem to switch to the high cam maps. (at least nothing gets data logged on the high cam map) currently i have the vtec routine enabled, but all vtec options disabled (speed check, ect check, pressure sensor, solenoid error, and error check) minimum load 2.9 in hg min ecu 60 min speed 10 km disengage 500 rpm lower vtec points low load 7500rpm 15% tps high load 7500 rpm 28% tps is there a better way to go about doing this? maybe i am doing something wrong. another thing i noticed, rev limiter is currently set to 8500 yet my datalogs dont show RPM getting over 7500. ive been trying different things but i am all out of ideas. anyone care to chime in?

Post by **Bugermass** » Thu May 28, 2009 10:20 am

this was will work, the other possibility is to use the highcam only option and rescale the highcam map.. I believe in basemap creator theres an option for a LS Highcam only map as well. You could use this and copy the fuel and timing values from a single cam map to the correct rpm/load points on the LS map and that would work as well. Id'd take a little more time to get tuned out, but it would probably be your best option..

danz · Post by **danz** » Thu May 28, 2009 11:03 am

hmm, so the way i am doing it should be working? i wonder why it wont switch to the high cam map? when i created the map i used the \"race d16z6\" and usdm p06 maps to start things off. i wonder if that might be it? i also tried to remove some lower RPM rows on the low cam map and add some above 8000 but it doesnt seem to want anything higher than 8000.

Post by **Bugermass** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:17 pm

yeah the RPM scaler will only allow 8000RPm on the low cam.. post your cal and I'll see if theres a setting you missed.

danz · Post by **danz** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:34 pm

Bugermass wrote:yeah the RPM scaler will only allow 8000RPm on the low cam.. post your cal and I'll see if theres a setting you missed.

will do when i get home from work. thanks a lot, much appreciated.

danz · Post by **danz** » Thu May 28, 2009 8:35 pm

hey bugermass, here it is. also, the rpm doesnt want to go above 7500 rpm when the limiter is set to 8500 currently. (with vtec enabled or disabled) i can upload logs as well if that would help.

elevation · Post by **elevation** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:18 pm

lower the rpm you enter 2nd map and see if problem follows cuz its too likely your entering second map @ 7500 and problem happens @ 7500.match 2nd maps per row , per column as 1st map, timing and fuel;)

9400RPMS · Post by **9400RPMS** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:59 pm

Whats done to Rev that high..

danz · Post by **danz** » Fri May 29, 2009 2:41 am

elevation wrote:lower the rpm you enter 2nd map and see if problem follows cuz its too likely your entering second map @ 7500 and problem happens @ 7500.match 2nd maps per row , per column as 1st map, timing and fuel;)

thanks for the good tip. im starting to think its either spark blow out or a janky dizzy. going to test some stuff out tomorrow. i got it go hit 8000rpm but it hesitates pretty bad. no detonation but power falls right off, of course. i ended up using an LS high cam base and copied my current tune over. all went smooth and the car drives great. except the high end issues. going to the track tomorrow, wish me 120 mph traps!!

9400RPMS · Post by **9400RPMS** » Fri May 29, 2009 12:50 pm

9400RPMS wrote:Whats done to Rev that high..

I guess we avoid this question? I'd like to know, few d series that I've tuned, haven't had any need to rev any higher then 7800rpms.. And we're talking built motors with a gangsta cam.. Is your car actually making power that high or what?

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Sat May 30, 2009 1:43 am

Hey Dan; I would ask; timing are you running at that RPM, and... is anything done the the valvetrain? OEM springs start to give out in the 8K range... you get valve float; a constant rpm with an odd hesitation to it that is very unique compared to detonation...

danz · Post by **danz** » Sun May 31, 2009 12:18 am

9400RPMS wrote:
9400RPMS wrote:Whats done to Rev that high..
I guess we avoid this question? I'd like to know, few d series that I've tuned, haven't had any need to rev any higher then 7800rpms.. And we're talking built motors with a gangsta cam.. Is your car actually making power that high or what?

bisi cam isky springs.... i want to stay in my power band when im shifting in the quarter mile.. that is the whole point of the cam, the springs, and head work. is my car making power up there? i dont know i cant rev it past 7500 to find out... sigh...

JaredKaragen wrote:Hey Dan; I would ask; timing are you running at that RPM, and... is anything done the the valvetrain? OEM springs start to give out in the 8K range... you get valve float; a constant rpm with an odd hesitation to it that is very unique compared to detonation...

at that RPM the timing value in the map is 21 deg. AFR is 11.5ish. (8:1 compression). zero audible detonation through the stethoscope. it seems to just fall on its face. i switched my tune over to LS maps and its the exact same issue. i picked up a new dizzy and it has the exact same problem i suppose it could be valve float, but that would be very disappointing. it was able to run 109mph with a 1500rpm power band tho.. i cant wait till i can open it up.

Post by **Bugermass** » Sun May 31, 2009 2:19 pm

hows your fueling transition between the low and high cam tables? its possible you have too much fuel on the high cam table and thats causing it to break up.. is that cal the most current one?

Bindegal · Post by **Bindegal** » Sun May 31, 2009 3:36 pm

Valvetrain or not... IÂ´m too scared to make the max piston speed calculation on a D16 spinning that fast

/Allan

danz · Post by **danz** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:34 am

Bugermass wrote:hows your fueling transition between the low and high cam tables? its possible you have too much fuel on the high cam table and thats causing it to break up.. is that cal the most current one?

here is the most current map. i pulled a tonne of timing to see what would happen. still gave me problems. there are pics of the datalog graphs as well on the map with 16deg timing. it was running 20-23.5deg of timing before with no detonation. but i wanted to double check my ear wasnt wrong. full sized pics here: http://picasaweb.google.com/danielzeilstra/DatalogPics# i dont need 9500rpm, but the fact of the matter is it should be able to surpass 7000rpm without sputtering