non-vtec d series, higher rpm needed

9400RPMS · Post by **9400RPMS** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:33 am

cam degreed?

danz · Post by **danz** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:11 pm

9400RPMS wrote:cam degreed?

good question... no. i have everything i need to do it minus the dial gauge and magnetic base. its a shame i didnt have my cam gear before the motor went in. but that is a really good suggestion for something to check into.

(working on trying to borrow a dial gauge and base tomorrow from a work buddy)

9400RPMS · Post by **9400RPMS** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:16 pm

depending on how big the duration and lift is, i'd say it'd have somewhat a big say on where your car falls flat on its face.. Usually if its falling flat on its face, your not making anymore power.. I understand the whole reving higher to fall back into your peak torque curve.. i know, i do the same thing, My car stops power at 8900rpms and i reved it to 9500rpms to fall back into my max torque, with the gearing i'm using, and as short as my tranny is, i had to rev higher to make my power. But on a small motor like a d series i just dont see it making power pass like 8500. I wouldn't push it myself, unless you know all your basics are upgraded, rod bolts specially.. I'd like to see a dyno of your motor myself.

danz · Post by **danz** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:28 pm

9400RPMS wrote:depending on how big the duration and lift is, i'd say it'd have somewhat a big say on where your car falls flat on its face.. Usually if its falling flat on its face, your not making anymore power.. I understand the whole reving higher to fall back into your peak torque curve.. i know, i do the same thing, My car stops power at 8900rpms and i reved it to 9500rpms to fall back into my max torque, with the gearing i'm using, and as short as my tranny is, i had to rev higher to make my power. But on a small motor like a d series i just dont see it making power pass like 8500. I wouldn't push it myself, unless you know all your basics are upgraded, rod bolts specially.. I'd like to see a dyno of your motor myself.

its going to go on the dyno once everything gets worked out. basic run down is extended fjt i beam rods, arp rod bolts, vitara pistons .020 over, .004 PTW clearance, holset HE351CW, bisimoto 1.22 turbo cam, isky d16a6 springs, 8.01:1 compression bosch fuel pump with precision 788 low impedance injectors stock 91 si cable tranny with mfactory lsd i think i could make due with a 8500rpm red line. strange thing is my peers seem to be able to pull off 8500 without any problems on their d's, two examples being zex 59500 cams with zex springs. (both on turbo setups) when i originally talked with bisi i let him know i was looking to make power up to 7800... the weird thing is sometimes the motor wont even go over 7000-7200ish. it doesnt just stop pulling, it just STOPS. lol to me, it seems totally like ignition. but im no pro. its a shame i cant take some pros for a ride-along to feel it first hand.

9400RPMS · Post by **9400RPMS** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:42 pm

make a video, i've had plenty of cars that i've tuned that had this problem The cams or Cam isn't degreed in, i'll stick by that until you prove it otherwise

I'd check your timing, it might have slipped maybe even a half a tooth would make a difference. Have you tried pissing in the wind on the gear settings? Try +2, see if the car feels any difference, if it doesn't, try -2.. maybe you need to tweak it, and i've worked with bisi, he knows his stuff.. thats a low compression your running i'm assuming your turboed?

danz · Post by **danz** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:41 am

9400RPMS wrote:make a video, i've had plenty of cars that i've tuned that had this problem The cams or Cam isn't degreed in, i'll stick by that until you prove it otherwise I'd check your timing, it might have slipped maybe even a half a tooth would make a difference. Have you tried pissing in the wind on the gear settings? Try +2, see if the car feels any difference, if it doesn't, try -2.. maybe you need to tweak it, and i've worked with bisi, he knows his stuff.. thats a low compression your running i'm assuming your turboed?

the turbo is as thick as the block. its pretty cool. if i could just get it to hold together at high rpm it wouldnt be a problem. my voltage was dropping to 12.5v at "max" rpm, so i threw in another alt and it holds steady at 13.5v at WOT but it still dies out. im thinking it might be the smaller than stock replacement battery i am running... going to try and put a larger battery in the car and see what happens. and get my hands on a dial gauge to degree the cam, while checking the mechanical timing at the same time. sooo annoyed right now. no one has any more ideas? here are some datalogs from tonight.

danz · Post by **danz** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:07 am

i tried to take the car up to 7000rpm with part throttle and light load and when it gets to 7000-7200rpm it does the exact same thing as it does at high load. why am i thinking valve float? hmmm

i went to degree the cam yesterday but i dont think a cam card came with the cam, or else i lost it (but i dont remember one). so ive emailed bisi and i hope he can help out with some specs to find center line. if degreeing it doesnt help IDK what ill do next.

dbsharp · Post by **dbsharp** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:48 pm

what does it feel like when you get to 7k? dose it feel like its making power and then stop abruptly like your hitting a fuel or ignition cut? I just looked at your last datalog and It shows 7800 rpms on the log. the rpms that you logged look choppy as hell, but maybe thats just me.

Post by **Bugermass** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:24 am

U sure your not hitting your rev limiter and your tach is just way off.. I've seen tachs be 1500-2000 RPM off at higher revs..

danz · Post by **danz** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:24 am

Bugermass wrote:U sure your not hitting your rev limiter and your tach is just way off.. I've seen tachs be 1500-2000 RPM off at higher revs..

i am going off what the datalogs show me, which correspond with the tach. the odd time it will allow me to go over 7200 but its a struggle. very weird! tonight i was so fed up i decided to let my buddy make me a basemap in crome just to test... after a few minutes of tuning we felt the maps were good enough to take it to higher rpm. guess what? it jumped up to 8000rpm no problem. so something is wrong with my basemap (i would assume this is the case) or something is wrong with ectune. anyone see anything wrong? i would sure like to take advantage of this software. it doesnt seem like anyone else is having this problem.. lol

Post by **calvin** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:50 am

There is nothing wrong. Post most recent cal and log. -I would use high cam map only checkbox. -redo the high cam rpm scalar -built a map from scratch. Do you see FCUT or IGN cut on when u go over the 7000 rpm? awaiting the files

danz · Post by **danz** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:21 pm

calvin wrote:There is nothing wrong. Post most recent cal and log. -I would use high cam map only checkbox. -redo the high cam rpm scalar -built a map from scratch. Do you see FCUT or IGN cut on when u go over the 7000 rpm? awaiting the files

fuel cut and ignition cut do not register on the datalogs unless i set them to 7000rpm or less. then they show up fine. currently the map is set to high cam only.

danz · Post by **danz** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:15 pm

well just a little update i replaced my coil with an MSD unit and went out to test to see if it helped.. did a 3rd gear pull, got to 7200rpm like usual the car lost ALL power. under closer inspection on a tear down a retainer (oem) was cracked in half and it dropped a valve. two pistons were half melted. im thinking it had too much ignition timing. motor was perfectly in time from cam to crank. weird tho ive never seen an OEM retainer let go at 7200rpm. but theres gotta be a first for everything.

only 1 keeper to be found. lol

head is junk too

dbsharp · Post by **dbsharp** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:50 pm

wow that really sucks. That would explain the problems you were having.

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:52 pm

I create a map for b20 today, and dyno tuned it for low and high cam work really nice and strong