Big Power Figures & Spark Plugs

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:38 am

I finally found the answer xenocron plugs are not resistor plugs....

xenocron · Post by **xenocron** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:55 pm

Joey Misanthropy wrote:I'm talking about the same temp plugs, just going from extended electrode (7173) to the non-extended electrode (4554).

Plenty in stock bitches

I need to come up with a price list for eCtuners

5238 - 9's 4554 - 8's 4091 - 7's non-resistor

Joey Misanthropy · Post by **Joey Misanthropy** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:51 pm

Bindegal wrote:How does the Honda ignition system hold up to the non-resistor spark plugs? I did a bit of searching for 8-plugs (with resistor) but could only find them as Iridium plugs. And as I heard a horror story or two from a well known member of the PGMFI community, well that sort of shortened the list of 8-plugs to... zero

They mess with K-poop and S-crap daughterwidgets and datalogging functions, but a regular ECU is fine. I have no idea what horror story you are talking about, but I can dredge up ten times the resistored 8+ heat range plug horror stories... since they are all iridium with that sintered on tip that falls off. Ever wonder how your pistons and your soft ductile iron sleeves like diamond hard iridium when the tip decides to pop off? It happens every so often. Best bet is to listen to all sides, experiment a little, and make up your own mind.

pacman · Post by **pacman** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:44 pm

xenocron wrote:Plenty in stock bitches I need to come up with a price list for eCtuners 5238 - 9's 4554 - 8's 4091 - 7's non-resistor

Thats good to know, they seem to be a bit of an enigma over here.

Post by **calvin** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:37 pm

i need tooo

Bindegal · Post by **Bindegal** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:39 pm

I have bought spark plugs from http://www.apwonline.com often, they usually ship really fast and prices seem okay too. And yes, the horror stories I heard were related to Iridium plugs too. Sorrry if my post wasnÂ´t 100% clear on that. /Allan

BRMS · Post by **BRMS** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:34 pm

I have hundreds of projected and non projected plugs in stock. 828-433-4545

Post by **Bugermass** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:37 pm

Could you do me a favor BRMS or anyone else, Can you measure the insulator depth on the 4554 and the 7173s? I'm trying to find out why theres a power difference. The results seem opposite of most spark plug theory I've read. A projected type plug should have a better burn due to the flame starting farther into the center of the combustion chamber, according to NGK Champion and a few other articles I've read. The only 2 conclusions I can come up with as to why the non projecteds make more power, is A. The non projected doesn't cause as much turbulence in the swirl of the mixture. OR B. The non projected even though they are the same number heat range are actually colder because the insulator is shorter. Which is likely because between plug series the same heat range number doesn't always coincide with the same tempuratures. So if somone could measure this ( I don't have any sets currently ) mabey it'll shed some light on why.

BRMS · Post by **BRMS** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:23 pm

Ill have you sum measurements in the morning. I ran the non projected 8s this past week @ Indy. 19psi being easy on the car 10.50ET.

Post by **Bugermass** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:58 pm

Thanks

Post by **Bugermass** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:14 pm

Where you able to take those measurements?

Joey Misanthropy · Post by **Joey Misanthropy** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:01 am

Brandon was talking to me about taking the measurements, I think it got lost in the shuffle. Really, the 7173's are recessed compared to stockers and the 4554's are recessed to the point the ceramic barely clears the well. It's a pretty big difference. I think your gains from going with colder plugs on NA cars is a result of shiny's inability to advance timing as far as needed - the colder plug slows the burn by increasing effective octane. I was completely unable to replicate it on the H22 I tuned Saturday - between letting the engine cool for 15-20 minutes and changing to colder plugs I gained 0.8-1.1 whp across the board. The bigger power turbo car's picking up power from the recessed plugs might be due to something similar - in the NA range the stock coil is pretty well mapped out by the OEM, but between plug gap and charge density molesting the secondary side of the coil circuit the ignition event may be completely different and would benefit from tweaking the ignition event.

Post by **Bugermass** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:37 am

I think your gains from going with colder plugs on NA cars is a result of shiny's inability to advance timing as far as needed

I noticed this same effect in eCtune, I havnt used shiny in a really long time. .

the 7173's are recessed compared to stockers and the 4554's are recessed to the point the ceramic barely clears the well. It's a pretty big difference.

What I was getting at about the plug depths, is if the insulator is less projected, is the insulator actually shorter? or does it go deeper into the plug..

I was completely unable to replicate it on the H22 I tuned Saturday

On some cars I've had it make no difference, but the plugs in those engines showed proper heat range chars in the first place. The motors that the plugs looked to be running on the hot side I saw gain from going colder.

I'm trying to figure out A. if the colder plug is making more power because its preventing lower to mid level detonation from occuring? or if not then why is the colder plug making a difference, power wise? and B. is the non projected plug actually running colder due to a reduced length in insulator resulting in a colder operating plug. I know you said the heat ranges are the same # but its possible that a 8in BKR series and a 8 in a 7173 and or 4554 could actually be different in temperature ranges. Are 6,7,8,9,10s specific temp ranges across all NGK plugs or are they just indicators of colder/hotter within different plug series. Not sure if I explained that well.. what i'm saying is temp wise could a 9 as in a BKR9E be the same at a 8 in a 7173 or a 7 in a 4554.

Joey Misanthropy · Post by **Joey Misanthropy** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:31 am

Bugermass wrote:
I think your gains from going with colder plugs on NA cars is a result of shiny's inability to advance timing as far as needed
I noticed this same effect in eCtune

Ah. Well, this was only in one car I tried it on. I'll keep trying to replicate it then.

Bugermass wrote:What I was getting at about the plug depths, is if the insulator is less projected, is the insulator actually shorter? or does it go deeper into the plug..

Now that, sir, is a very good question. If Brandon/BRMS doesn't pipe up with some measurements I'll make a point of bringing my dial calipers and taking some measurements when I head down there on Wednesday.

Civic Tsi · Post by **Civic Tsi** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:23 pm

I just realize that I've been using these plugs for over 5 years

This may add some evidence that these plugs are really good. Like 3 years ago, a friend of mine dyno tune his GSR and if I remember correctly, he had like 480whp @ 26psi. He wanted 500whp badly and the tuner said he couldn't made any more power out of this turbo. So for the last pull, I changed his plugs for a brand new set of R5671- 8. He maded 510whp on that pull

The tuner was shock needless to say, Chris Tapp for those who know him.