Big Power Figures & Spark Plugs

BRMS · Post by **BRMS** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:57 pm

The 7173 have a projected insulator. Where the 4554 has a non-projected insulator. We've used the 7173 up until today.

Post by **Bugermass** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:20 am

ahh IC, that makes sence too.. Less low level detonation from insulator heat.

Joey Misanthropy · Post by **Joey Misanthropy** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:24 pm

Bugermass wrote:Sounds like your out of CFM on the turbo.. Its only good for about 600HP

It's supposedly good for 650, the dyno used is roughly approx to Dynojet numbers, so I dunno.

xenocron · Post by **xenocron** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:43 pm

These results are very odd...the one thing you didnt do is throw any sort of "control" in your testing...like back to back identical passes. I cant imagine a plug gap going tighter would drop horsepower by THAT much unless the dyno is just screwy or you are getting severe heat soak. Anyone ever try the hole in the end of the outer electrode? I think I am going to spend some time and make a few sets for my buddies H22 and see if I can feel the difference. If anyone doesnt know what I mean...read this: http://fueleconomytips.com/2005/10/28/spark-plug-magic/ Should make for an overall better burn...hopefully nothing blows up

BRMS wrote:I did some comparisons today: Using NGK 7173 8 Heat Range Gap .30 @ 19psi 440 / 290 (new plugs) Gap .25 @ 19psi 415 / 276 2nd pass Gap .22 @ 19psi 396 / 297 3rd pass Gap .25 @ 25psi 487 / 342 4th pass Using NGK 4554 8 Heat Range Gap .30 @ 19psi 466 / 316 5th pass (new plugs) Gap .28 @ 19psi 449 / 312 6th pass Gap .28 @ 25psi 538 / 382 7th pass Gap .27 @ 19psi 427 / 287 8th pass Gap .27 @ 25psi 542 / 392 9th pass Gap .25 @ 19psi 427 / 294 10th pass Gap .25 @ 25psi 512 / 344 11th pass coolant temps @ 190-200 Degz.

Joey Misanthropy · Post by **Joey Misanthropy** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:59 am

The low boost 19 psi pulls are all as good as a control... flat as a strap boost pressure via wastegate, the logs are purdy. Theoretically the projected tip would start the burn off better, but Brandon says the car is running great last night. 7.1@101 off low boost only, previous best from two weeeks ago was a 7.25@104 hitting the high boost in 3rd.

xenocron · Post by **xenocron** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:45 pm

Joey Misanthropy wrote:The low boost 19 psi pulls are all as good as a control... flat as a strap boost pressure via wastegate, the logs are purdy.

But he never did any back to back pulls to eliminate any variations in the dyno or run differences (heat soak)

Post by **calvin** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:23 pm

xenocron wrote:These results are very odd...the one thing you didnt do is throw any sort of "control" in your testing...like back to back identical passes. I cant imagine a plug gap going tighter would drop horsepower by THAT much unless the dyno is just screwy or you are getting severe heat soak. Anyone ever try the hole in the end of the outer electrode? I think I am going to spend some time and make a few sets for my buddies H22 and see if I can feel the difference. If anyone doesnt know what I mean...read this: http://fueleconomytips.com/2005/10/28/spark-plug-magic/ Should make for an overall better burn...hopefully nothing blows up
BRMS wrote:I did some comparisons today: Using NGK 7173 8 Heat Range Gap .30 @ 19psi 440 / 290 (new plugs) Gap .25 @ 19psi 415 / 276 2nd pass Gap .22 @ 19psi 396 / 297 3rd pass Gap .25 @ 25psi 487 / 342 4th pass Using NGK 4554 8 Heat Range Gap .30 @ 19psi 466 / 316 5th pass (new plugs) Gap .28 @ 19psi 449 / 312 6th pass Gap .28 @ 25psi 538 / 382 7th pass Gap .27 @ 19psi 427 / 287 8th pass Gap .27 @ 25psi 542 / 392 9th pass Gap .25 @ 19psi 427 / 294 10th pass Gap .25 @ 25psi 512 / 344 11th pass coolant temps @ 190-200 Degz.

Nice results but how trusted? I need those 4554. But those are non-projected. What does the projected dooo?

Post by **Bugermass** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:10 pm

Joey Misanthropy wrote:
Bugermass wrote:Sounds like your out of CFM on the turbo.. Its only good for about 600HP
It's supposedly good for 650, the dyno used is roughly approx to Dynojet numbers, so I dunno.

Good for 650 IF your running enough timming to make 650 at the turbos max output. Thats like if I have a turbo thats good for 300HP but I am only running 5deg timming at max flow, then I may only make 250, see what I mean? And turning up the boost past where the turbo is effecient will result in all kinds of weirdness.. What are the exact specs for the turbo your using, cause the standard Map for a GT35R turbo only puts it around 600HP. Also what compression are you running? If its on the low side you may not see that 600-650 HP either.. The fact that your having to run 30+ psi to make 500+ makes me think theres not enough timming and your maxing out the turbo to make up the HP lost to too conservative timming.. Try finding the highest boost level you can hold steadily, then start putting some deg in there and see if you get big power gains. I think you may be surprised.

Post by **Bugermass** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:14 pm

Heres the maps from a few diff GT35 series turbos. http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga ... 4568_3.htm http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga ... 4568_1.htm http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga ... 4568_2.htm They all max out at 600HP around 28PSI. on 2.0L.. Remeber these maps are a reference they arn't exactly what you'll get, and the 600HP region is a very very small region..

Joey Misanthropy · Post by **Joey Misanthropy** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:08 pm

Well, for bigger power B-series I'm sold on the non-projected NGK race plugs. We picked up power on a different setup last night just from changing the plugs, despite a few degrees warmer ambient temps and the engine being heatsoaked. I'm a believer. Now, whether this holds true for NA, low power turbo, bigger bores, smaller bores, other engines, other ignition setups, etc, I take no official position.

Post by **Bugermass** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:17 pm

Joey Misanthropy wrote:Well, for bigger power B-series I'm sold on the non-projected NGK race plugs. We picked up power on a different setup last night just from changing the plugs, despite a few degrees warmer ambient temps and the engine being heatsoaked. I'm a believer. Now, whether this holds true for NA, low power turbo, bigger bores, smaller bores, other engines, other ignition setups, etc, I take no official position.

Yea on N/A setups I've seen HP gains from going from a 7 to a 8 or even a 9 in some setups..

Joey Misanthropy · Post by **Joey Misanthropy** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:13 am

I'm talking about the same temp plugs, just going from extended electrode (7173) to the non-extended electrode (4554).

Post by **Bugermass** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:41 am

hmm, interesting.. Mabey the effect I'm getting with the colder plugs isn't from the heat range at all mabey its from the fact that the insulator is shorter.. I\"ll have to do some reasearch on that.. Interesting stuff. . .

Bindegal · Post by **Bindegal** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:51 am

How does the Honda ignition system hold up to the non-resistor spark plugs? I did a bit of searching for 8-plugs (with resistor) but could only find them as Iridium plugs. And as I heard a horror story or two from a well known member of the PGMFI community, well that sort of shortened the list of 8-plugs to... zero

Luckily we donÂ´t see too many extreme builds around here yet, but theyÂ´re sure to come so I like to be prepared. /Allan

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:57 am

Bindegal wrote:How does the Honda ignition system hold up to the non-resistor spark plugs? I did a bit of searching for 8-plugs (with resistor) but could only find them as Iridium plugs. And as I heard a horror story or two from a well known member of the PGMFI community, well that sort of shortened the list of 8-plugs to... zero Luckily we donÂ´t see too many extreme builds around here yet, but theyÂ´re sure to come so I like to be prepared. /Allan

do you know if xenocron plugs are not resistor plugs?