stuffs gettin a little warm in here.

dcletten · Post by **dcletten** » Wed May 19, 2010 10:42 am

ok. heres the setup: d16y8, vitara build. built head garrett gt32 on 1bar wg ebay triple core radiator 14in fan thats wired to my ign 1yr old water pump 180* thermostat that i verified is working this morning all stock heater hosing/iac/whatever hosing is all stock still b16 hoses (they were free) arp studs torqued to 80psi felpro head gasket a little background. had a cap pressure problem, it wouldnt realease. this caused my heater hose to burst from pressure(temp guage only went to maybe 3/4 hot before i noticed what went wrong. fixed that, replaced cap. now my pressure issue is gone. BUT say on an hour long cruise. with my heat on it will stay in the 196-200 range. if i turn my heat off it starts soaring. i let it idle after a cruise and it took about 10-15 min to go from 200-210 with my heater off just idliing. and then i shut it off other issue. it seems to be using some coolant. only on occasion. but it does. i really think i lifted the head, or am lifting the head under boost. i know i have a slight oil leak coming from the front where block and head meet but its done that since day one. its not very much and oil pressure stays where it has always been(20-25 at idle, 50-60 cruising 80ish at high rpm). no oil/coolant or coolant/oil contaminiation at all and the car runs perfectly fine. did a comp test its 185 across the board. no smoke coming from the car except i did a 2nd gear pull next to my buddy and he said i popped one white cloud when i shifted into 3rd. im 100% stumped and really dont feel like tearing the head off again, nor do i have a leakdown tester. when i first got the head(bought from someone off turbod16.com) it came with an adj cam gear that was adv 4 deg. i asked the guy if it was a z6 cam he said no, that he had it set that way cause it made more power...? so i zerod it back out(stupid me didnt look at the valves to see if they were 100% closed, yes. i know im dumb) right now my dizzy is set all the way retarded just to get it set at 12* in theory if i adv it 4 deg my dizzy would be back in the center position when i retimed it. could this in theory make me run hot too? as far as timing goes im at 13.5-14 @ 15psi on 93 octane sorry for the long read. this car is getting on my last nerve because i cant figure this out. though i am no tuner, a buddy at conrbredtuning did the tune(street). all i can do is just little adj. ive included my map and an old log. someone pleassssse help me

Almighty-Si · Post by **Almighty-Si** » Wed May 19, 2010 3:02 pm

Make sure that your thermostat is working properly. I had an issue like this not too long ago and I thought that the thermostat opened fine because the lower hose got hot right about the time it was supposed too. After taking it out and putting it in a pot of water on my stove, I noticed that it would start to open and one side would get stuck about 5mm down and the other side opened just a little but more letting coolant out and getting that lower hose hot but not letting enough out fast enough to effectively cool the motor. If you are 100% sure that your thermostat is working properly and you are still having the overheating problem, I would have to guess a warped mounting surface (head or block) just by what you had mentioned about oil leaking from the gasket between. Goodluck !

dcletten · Post by **dcletten** » Wed May 19, 2010 5:01 pm

well i did pull the stat out and throw it in some water, i know water boils at 212, so i heated it to the point where i started seeing bubles forming on the bottom, threw the stat in and it started opening, pulled it out and it closed, figured was good and threw it back in. went for a cruise no heat this time. let it heat up to 209, turned my heat on and it slowwwly went down to 205 by the time i got home. i think im just gonna say screw it and replace the thermostat and pull the head off, i need to fix that oil leak anyways :-/

Almighty-Si · Post by **Almighty-Si** » Wed May 19, 2010 9:46 pm

Yea I would just swap the thermostat, worst case you'll waste $10 bucks if it doesn't work. When you get the head off, just throw a straight edge on the head and the block and check the warpage.

TopMountGSR · Post by **TopMountGSR** » Sat May 29, 2010 9:18 am

Don't waste your time with that Felpro head gasket or autoparts store thermostats, put oem ones back in their place with aftermarket head studs torqued down to 80ft pounds. If you don't do these things, you will be doing them twice..

TopMountGSR · Post by **TopMountGSR** » Sat May 29, 2010 9:23 am

Smooth that map out, that 4th column is pretty messed up. Lines should never cross, if it keeps wanting crossed lines play with the injector offset. Those timing maps also need work, way to conservative, thing has to be slow, your missing almost 10 degrees of timing in your tenth column of your high cam map. Your also running more timing in low cam, vs high cam. Keep everything symmetrical, thats the key with ectune and getting them to run smooth as butter. Also enable your fan control, if I had to guess that is your overheating issue. Your overheat protection is also set a bit low, I'd set to at least 214-219 with a 800-900 rpm cut, not a 3700rpm cut. Most of the time these cars overheat at idle, overheat protection needs to be set so the user is notified at idle. I highly recommend you take the car to an authorized ectune tuner. Whoever tuned this map is wasting your time.

dcletten · Post by **dcletten** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:23 pm

TopMountGSR wrote:Smooth that map out, that 4th column is pretty messed up. Lines should never cross, if it keeps wanting crossed lines play with the injector offset. ? you talkin fuel or timing? Those timing maps also need work, way to conservative, thing has to be slow, your missing almost 10 degrees of timing in your tenth column of your high cam map. Your also running more timing in low cam, vs high cam. what should i be aiming for and where? idle vs cruising vs full boost? and the car actually has some get-up to it, in full boost anyways. Keep everything symmetrical, thats the key with ectune and getting them to run smooth as butter. just hit the smooth map button, gonna see if that helps any Also enable your fan control, if I had to guess that is your overheating issue. Your overheat protection is also set a bit low, I'd set to at least 214-219 with a 800-900 rpm cut, not a 3700rpm cut. Most of the time these cars overheat at idle, overheat protection needs to be set so the user is notified at idle. fan is ran off ign switch right now, so when the keys on the fans on. so i dont see the fan control making a diff, but again new to ectune. my car does overheat at idle, especially if i dont have my blower motor on. and from everything i see everywhere most ppl are running from 185-205 so figured overheat protection at 214 was ok, will throw the rpm down lower though, just set it that high so that if it did happen i could move it off the road at least I highly recommend you take the car to an authorized ectune tuner. Whoever tuned this map is wasting your time. so then what would you charge me to make a trip up to Indiana, being i cant drive my junk to ya? and if you cant do that, im tryin to learn this program and honestly dont know what im looking for as far as setting the right timing numbers. it all makes sense, even my throttle response just isnt there, idk. the guy that tuned it has tuned my car two other times(stock motor, and also when the block was built) and never had a single issue in the 3yrs the cars been running, until this final tune time. im so confused, im tired of not being able to drive my junk, im gonna go insane

dcletten · Post by **dcletten** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:00 pm

im going to try and use the d16y8 street tune thats posted under the user posted cal's. and try to take the N/A timing portion and copy all of that into mine and see if i can get that to work any better, much smoother, and really similar to my setup besides injector size and cam differences.

TopMountGSR · Post by **TopMountGSR** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:09 am

so then what would you charge me to make a trip up to Indiana, being i cant drive my junk to ya?

PM sent, I travel to IN once a month to tune cars.

sohcd16y8 · Post by **sohcd16y8** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:17 pm

TopMountGSR wrote:Smooth that map out, that 4th column is pretty messed up. Lines should never cross, if it keeps wanting crossed lines play with the injector offset. Those timing maps also need work, way to conservative, thing has to be slow, your missing almost 10 degrees of timing in your tenth column of your high cam map. Your also running more timing in low cam, vs high cam. Keep everything symmetrical, thats the key with ectune and getting them to run smooth as butter. Also enable your fan control, if I had to guess that is your overheating issue. Your overheat protection is also set a bit low, I'd set to at least 214-219 with a 800-900 rpm cut, not a 3700rpm cut. Most of the time these cars overheat at idle, overheat protection needs to be set so the user is notified at idle. I highly recommend you take the car to an authorized ectune tuner. Whoever tuned this map is wasting your time.

This car does not have a tune on it, just a super conservative, don't blow, get you started map. After having me tune his car for the past few years and with me getting ready to leave the area, he asked me to get him started on ect so he could finish the tune and be confident with it. I did just that, put a very conservative map in so he could smooth things, and actually adjust timing to see its affects without over-advancing and blowing the engine, showed him how to read plugs, showed him the different tables and how to work the boost control tables when he was ready and sent him on his way. 10th column timing and lines crossing on fuel maps isn't going to make the car overheat when sitting in the driveway. Dan - Like I have told you many times, yes you never had a problem until this tune, but you were also using a completely different head, cam, radiator, and a number of other mechanical things that are more than likely still the problem. You went years with a good running strong car on your older setups and tunes, and I did not set you up in anyway this time to miraculously have cooling issues. Just a glorified basemap to learn how to tune on. This is one of the reasons I slowly stopped tuning so many cars, you bend over backwards to help people, spend hours giving them advice on non-tuning related issues only for them to throw you under the bus the second something is wrong with anything. I once had someone blame my tune for their alt. belt coming off on the highway.

9400RPMS · Post by **9400RPMS** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:12 pm

sohcd16y8 wrote:
TopMountGSR wrote:Smooth that map out, that 4th column is pretty messed up. Lines should never cross, if it keeps wanting crossed lines play with the injector offset. Those timing maps also need work, way to conservative, thing has to be slow, your missing almost 10 degrees of timing in your tenth column of your high cam map. Your also running more timing in low cam, vs high cam. Keep everything symmetrical, thats the key with ectune and getting them to run smooth as butter. Also enable your fan control, if I had to guess that is your overheating issue. Your overheat protection is also set a bit low, I'd set to at least 214-219 with a 800-900 rpm cut, not a 3700rpm cut. Most of the time these cars overheat at idle, overheat protection needs to be set so the user is notified at idle. I highly recommend you take the car to an authorized ectune tuner. Whoever tuned this map is wasting your time.
This car does not have a tune on it, just a super conservative, don't blow, get you started map. After having me tune his car for the past few years and with me getting ready to leave the area, he asked me to get him started on ect so he could finish the tune and be confident with it. I did just that, put a very conservative map in so he could smooth things, and actually adjust timing to see its affects without over-advancing and blowing the engine, showed him how to read plugs, showed him the different tables and how to work the boost control tables when he was ready and sent him on his way. 10th column timing and lines crossing on fuel maps isn't going to make the car overheat when sitting in the driveway. Dan - Like I have told you many times, yes you never had a problem until this tune, but you were also using a completely different head, cam, radiator, and a number of other mechanical things that are more than likely still the problem. You went years with a good running strong car on your older setups and tunes, and I did not set you up in anyway this time to miraculously have cooling issues. Just a glorified basemap to learn how to tune on. This is one of the reasons I slowly stopped tuning so many cars, you bend over backwards to help people, spend hours giving them advice on non-tuning related issues only for them to throw you under the bus the second something is wrong with anything. I once had someone blame my tune for their alt. belt coming off on the highway.

I've been in the same boat a few times, however in this hobby its like that. If you feel like your tune is good, dont bitch about it... this guy is just asking questions.. and getting answers from a few "very good tuning people".. I get double checked by others all the time, you get used to it, specially with someone who doesn't know alot..E.I. this guy.

TopMountGSR · Post by **TopMountGSR** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:52 am

I've never seen a tune make the car over heat while idling unless fan control wasn't enabled, sounds more like a thermo or fan issue. I know what you all are talking about, I get held responsible for a whole lot of stuff I shouldn't all the time. Everyone wants to blame what they were not responsible for. I just work with my self and how I deal with it. I just try to work with them, get them though their issues, and get them on to enjoying their turbo car.

dcletten · Post by **dcletten** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:24 pm

ok, first off, andy i never said your tune was bunk, not once. but from lookin at others they look WAY different than mine. the car runs just as great as it always has, which is why im confused. i just have this wonderful overheating problem that im 1000000% ready to be done with and just enjoy this piece of shit car i have. im totally running out of options on what it can be. ive replaced damn near everything except the block and head, and it still overheats. up to date list of things checked/replaced: new thermostat (even checked the old one, opened before i could get water to boil) new fan - had a 10in on there, bumped to a 1250cfm 14in new waterpump ( old one was only two yrs old but had another) block had less than .002 warpage when head was put back on head was pressure tested and decked before put on this time fresh arp headstuds torqued to 65ftlb new rad cap and still using the stock overflow setup radiator was brand new with this new build(granted is an ebay one but still should do the work being tripple core alum) pressure tested the system at 15psi for 2.5 hrs and didnt lose a single pound. i dont get it at all, everything seems to be in 100% working order yet im still overheating somehow. anyone that can offer any help whatsoever please do so. and if i havent said this before, this has all been during no boost situations. i havent gotten on my car in forever :-/

Maddog20 · Post by **Maddog20** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:30 pm

What motor is the crank,cam gear and cam from? I would verify if the cam gear is for a Y8. How you can tell is if the key cut out is offset from 0*. I believe a Y8 cam gear key cut is 4.75* retarded. Also when setting TDC on a Y8 remove the valve cover set a machinest ruler flat on the head surface. It should line up to the the marks on the cam gear at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, dont use the pointer on the plastic cover it is wrong and just a generic piece used for different engine in that gen. Once you get the mechanical timing setup...then set the ignition timing with SVC connector jumped. Then see if the car over heats at idle.

TopMountGSR · Post by **TopMountGSR** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:45 am

Did you use an oem thermo? When is it over heating? idling, freeway, etc. Is the bottom rad hose getting hot? Re torque those head studs down to 80-85 ft lbs, it will save you a world of trouble.