dsm 450cc injectors high offset.

tvgz28 · Post by **tvgz28** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:41 pm

hi i recently started tuning ectune and im having some problems with getting it tuned. here's some specs on the car. 1993 civic b18b with a gsr tranny 14b tubo with a 38mm external gate. low 6psi high 15psi dsm blue top 450 injectors and 255 high pressure pump. ostrich,lc-1 with a serial cable for input stock map and j&s safeguard ok so after loading a b18c1 basemap with 6 culoms of boost tables 180% turbo efficiency and 1.75 ignition retard per pound and disabling vtec and closeloop and all that good stuff and setting the injector table up for the 450's i started the car up to set the injector offset to get it to idle at a good afr of around 14.7 to 15 i have to set the injector offset to +88? first test drive and the off boost portion is way rich( 8.1 to 9) and so are the boost portions. to bring the afr to 10.50 the boost portion i have to set the efficiency to -8%. any ideas?

jpjackson · Post by **jpjackson** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:50 pm

injector offset should not be that high, i am running dsm black tops and i think my offset is like 19.when starting out you should start around 120-130% boost fuel and see how that does, starting out with 180% and injector offset of 88, ofcoarce it is going to be rich. start over and set it to say 125% boost fuel, leave the injector calibration at 0% and start the car and let it warm up to full operating temp and then adjust your injector calibration so you have 14.5-15.0 afr, then start tuning, start low on boost and work your way up, and also you will have much more adjustment if you put as many boost columns as you can and you can change the value up top for what boost level that column will be controling, and starting off dont try to tune individual cells, if you have a column that is to rich, back that whole column down2-3%, and go the other way for lean. also -1.75 degrees per lbs of boost is very conservitive, i am running a d16 and my boost retard is at 1.25 per lbs of boost, i would say 1.5 would be a good starting point to be safe and the once you get your afr's tuned in then try 1.25-1.00, and make sure you have some way to hear spark knock, i.e. det can, chassis ear, google it. so good luck dude and let me know how it goes.

DSMR · Post by **DSMR** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:02 am

Sounds almost like an exhaust leak giving you some faulty info. Make absolutely sure that you have no leaks before your wideband, or at it for that matter.

tvgz28 · Post by **tvgz28** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:44 am

OK I made another basemap with 1.5- per pound and 120% efficiency and to get it to idle at a decent afr I have to set the offset really high. I have a j&s safe guard with a knock gauge so I can monitor knock. I also checked the exhaust over an I have no leaks. Should I try and leave the offset low and adjust the fuel in the table up? Also in smart tracking can you set it to read a single cell instead of four? Thanks for the help

jpjackson · Post by **jpjackson** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:47 am

yes you can in the tuner drop down menu, what is your offset now?

tvgz28 · Post by **tvgz28** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:10 am

+88. If everything is as it should the afr in the n/a portions should be pretty close right?

jpjackson · Post by **jpjackson** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:33 am

what base map did you start out with, +88 sounds wrong, i am running dsm 450 and my offset is +19

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:27 pm

FYI: when adding too much fuel.... Unburnt fuel/oxygen shows up as a lean condition... So.... Recheck your basemap

tvgz28 · Post by **tvgz28** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:17 pm

I started out with a b18c1 base map. And its for sure running lean and not overly rich at idle.

jpjackson · Post by **jpjackson** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:22 pm

JaredKaragen wrote:FYI: when adding too much fuel.... Unburnt fuel/oxygen shows up as a lean condition... So.... Recheck your basemap

do what

how is that???????

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:37 pm

O2 sensors read oxygen... So if you run way overly rich, the burn is incomplete and the o2 reads more oxygen in the exhaust gasses, thus leaner afr. It does not sense fuel. The same goes for detonation... And why you see lean spikes. But... This is mainly only really seen under boost..... Harder to notice at idle. Verify your fuel psi, and base ignition... If they and your battery offsets are ok... Then I'd say you just need that offset. I have always had to bump up my offsets on basemaps... But not that much.

jpjackson · Post by **jpjackson** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:46 pm

thank you for explaining that more in depth

i am running the same injectors and i am at +19, +88 sounds way to much, but if that what the engine wants, so be it.

Almighty-Si · Post by **Almighty-Si** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:36 pm

Why did you choose a vtec map for a non vtec motor?

tvgz28 · Post by **tvgz28** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:09 pm

ok so i got some tuning time in after work today. finally got the b18a basemap to load just to make sure there wasn't a big diff in the low cam fuel of a b18c1 map and it was the same deal 88 to 86 on the offset. so i took the car out and started driving and adjusting the offset down till the afr was a steady high 14 light load and low 14 mid load (29+ offset). let it idle back down and fattened the idle up a bunch and got it to around 15. ended up setting the turbo efficiency to 102.5 to get a steady low 12's at 1.25 degree of timing per psi. i think with a little more street tuning and some dyno time ill be set. i guess i just have a oddball car that is thirsty at idle lol. thank you all for the help

DSMR · Post by **DSMR** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:53 pm

Something is still going on here though. The algorithm that has been solid for tuning eCtune is in this order usually: (guru's can correct me if i'm off) - Load up base map (This should be straight forward) - Crank the car up and let it warm up using the injector calibration window. Just keep the AFR's in the nighborhood. - Once the car is fully warmed up adjust the injector offset to get the idle AFR spot on for your injector. DSM 450's play nice at stoich for example. - Mess with battery offset's using whichever method you like ie. taking the alternator belt off and adjusting at different voltages, or adding alot of load to the car to adjust offsets. - Then the tuning begins. So if you can't get through these steps without a super high offset, chances are that there is a hardware issue. Check your base fuel pressure.