AntiLag: My expirance, whats yours?

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:45 pm

yeah I see what you mean, but I know it can be done through the antilag routines, it's just the revlimit bug after the first backfire... it causes the revlimit to be constant as-if no resume is present. I still haven't been able to 1394 the video, but I dug up an OLD ass peice of hardware: Sanppy Video: USed the paralell interface to download a snapshot:

Boosted K20 · Post by **Boosted K20** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:22 pm

cool. looks like u got a lite-saver sticking out ur exhaust

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:25 pm

lol, yah, it's pretty sweet looking in slo-mo... makes me want to get a high speed camera for a good slomo shot... I just wish the vid could be there; you can totally hear what is happening =P but the video doesn't come close to showing you how loud it really is; maybe if I can get a DB meter to get a reading =)

xenocron · Post by **xenocron** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:08 pm

JaredKaragen wrote:(I am not boosted mind you, but it works the same, and may require small adjustment for boosted, but will be tested soon)

Please explain why you feel using antilag in car without a turbo is actually beneficial? I'm baffled...unless you are going for just the noise...

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:14 pm

naw, I am just expiramenting with it because each time you change the fuel or ignition, you hear the distinct differences between them; and the turbo really chops this up and breaks up the distinctness of the sound. The more violent the backfire; the greater/quicker a turbo will spool; in theory. The kit is going back on soon, this is purely testing right now; I will be able to line up N/A and turbo'd results to see if there are any correlations to fueling and ignition values. It is possible to get this violent of a reaction at lower RPM's, and seeing the different charachteristics; It would be peice of mind to some that they are polling 25+PSI on the line at 2-4K, instead of 6K+ . Less strain on the motor IMHO. And... some people like the hollywood look; but I really don't care about this motor since it's being rebuilt as soon ad I get the custom length D15B rods from FJ. That's why I am testing, plus since doing my first CROME antilag setup some time ago, I have been itching to figure out a few things that really aren't explained to most. 2-step and antilag produce similar results; but a 2-step gets to and maintains a higher boost level faster. a true 2-step skipps an ignition cycle [from everything that I have been able to figure out thus far], and seperates the backfires.... though it's hard to find technical reference documents out there on true 2-step theory and operation; I can't prove or disprove this yet. And, I doubt MSD will just simply tell me how exactly they do it =) A video of a 2-step limiter in action: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/f5d4 ... ae9243.htm Distinctly different than antilag.

Post by **Bugermass** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:06 pm

2 step simply means, theres 2 steps, your launch limiter and a max rev limiter. What your thinking off is Softouch rev limiting. where the ECu systematically drops cylinders as needed.. Basically the MSD starts by dropping every other cylinder, and it atlernates so that each cylinder fires every other time, then if the revs keep climbing it'll progressivly drop more cylinders more often to keep the rev limit stable.. Calvin has been trying to get the honda ECU to do this but its kinda tricky due to limitations of the ECU.. currenlt the ecu just kills all IGN output then resumes once the revs reach the resume point. so its not a smooth rev limit like an MSD would be..

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:57 pm

exactly what I was looking for; I have never been able to get such an answer out of someone about the technical nature; I thought skipping an ignition cycle lets say every third could provide the revlimiter and enough to limit RPM's and provide a fueling cycle. Tis a personal challenge... cause it can be done; different application with similar results... closer than antilag is. Maybe someting like the ability for it to fuelcut after the 3rd revolution or something to that nature.

Post by **Bugermass** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:50 pm

yeah, antilag is still needed though.. Just using a straight up 2 step even with softouch will not spool a turbo as well as if you add antilag to the equasion. There are several types of antilag.. Originally antilag was more for road racing type application.. On like road race cars and rally cars they will leave the throttle body open or have a device that opens the throttle body when they are in decel, at the same time the ECU will add a crap load of fuel and start cutting ignition momentarily, what this does is, during decel it keeps the revs up to a certain point and poors raw fuel into the exhuast effectivly keeping the turbo spooled in corners and between shifts and what not.. This works well for that application.. The way our antilag works is sorta simular except we hold the TB open with our foot, and not only do we add fuel, but also retard timing.. By doing this, you get the raw popping fuel in the turbo AND on the cycles that the cylinders DO fire they fire at such a retarded crank angle that the fuel is still burning when it comes out of the head and into the turbo, which creates ALOT of heat energy and spools up the turbo alot faster. This allows for much higher levels of boost production at lower revs.. So really to have all the best of everything you need softouch rev limiting and antilag together. Hope this makes sence I'm typing in a hurry.. Later

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:59 am

Right on the money as far a building boost =) I'm just trying to use whats available to see if I can get it as optimal as possible =) Alot of other antilag systems build boost pretty quick; they typical honda version has trouble sometimes. Since I can get pretty close results I just need to figure out thy the RPM's seem to stay constant after the initial 'backfire'.

Post by **calvin** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:24 pm

in the latest version i send please try anti-lag with ign-cut only Let me know

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:15 pm

calvin wrote:in the latest version i send please try anti-lag with ign-cut only Let me know

I will try it; As soon as I can get eCtune to load with the new version =) I have been using ign cut only for a while now; I like the responsiveness of the limiters with ign cut vs. fuel cut. I was able to get a nice clean result by lowering the fuel 2-3 more points, but the extreme hit of the backfire dissipeared, and with that the fire; I need to log my new fuel value to see what's going on in there. Turbo is going on within a week; whenever I feel like putting the intercooler kit back on the car. And as soon as I can get the plug I need for the VW boost solenoid; I will begin hitting that out; but I will be limited to 11PSI by MAP sensor, and te fact that I am nearly at seal level =(

sohcd16y8 · Post by **sohcd16y8** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:52 pm

So if you select ignition cut in the rev limiter tab this applies to anti-lag, FTL, etc

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:57 pm

yep. from my results it does; the fuel value required is different between the 2 types of cuts to acheive the same results.

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:27 pm

I am definately getting some better secondary backfires with this new version; I need to install 2.0r7 again to double check the difference, but the result is definately posative; I will add this comment: hitting boostcut with AntiLag enabled causes waaaaaay bigger single backfires than I have produced thus far... lol I think it was because of timing; anyways; Can antilag have an option to be inactive when boostcut is active? makes sense.

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:11 am

Ok, attached is a cut from a couple Antilag tests; I was trying less timing the farther down the right. the 2 black circles are about the point of the backfire; I only found them in the log when I got a good backfire. The black arrow is the point of interestl just shortly after the pop; the huge increase in boost (at 5,500RPM FTL) The red arrow points to where it starts poping again; and it doesn't work as efficently as seen in the boost levels.