Help with ID1000's ....

TopMountGSR · Post by **TopMountGSR** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:25 am

I have no problem setting up these injectors but these little jewels should be in the list for sure. id1000s are some really nice injectors that I'm sure more and more people will be using. id1000s are making 1600s a thing of the past.

Post by **Bugermass** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:52 am

Theres nothing new about these injectors.. And alot of what being said about them is bogus ... While they are good injectors, first off they are not 1000CC they are 880C if you go by the standards of injector measurments.. Also while they are supposedly matched better, the repeatability on injector testing is withing about 5-10 percent at lower pulsewidths so if you can't get 1 injector to consistantly flow the same at lower pulsewidths withing 5% then how the hell are you gonna match 4 injectors to within 5% at low pulse widths?? Also honestly who cares how they flow down low, its way more important for them to be consistant at higher flow rates where fueling is MUCH more critical.. And lastly, people have been using smaller injectors with higher base pressures for years, its nothing new, these are not magical injectors.. I will say that the bosch style injectors are better than most others out there.. BUT once again there is nothing magical about these injectors.. Its all hype, and it kinda pisses me off cause people are paying out the butt for these when they are nothing special..

ls_dx · Post by **ls_dx** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:57 am

Bugermass wrote:Theres nothing new about these injectors.. And alot of what being said about them is bogus ... While they are good injectors, first off they are not 1000CC they are 800C if you go by the standards of injector measurments.. Also while they are supposedly matched better, the repeatability on injector testing is withing about 5-10 percent at lower pulsewidths so if you can't get 1 injector to consistantly flow the same at lower pulsewidths withing 5% then how the hell are you gonna match 4 injectors to within 5% at low pulse widths?? Also honestly who cares how they flow down low, its way more important for them to be consistant at higher flow rates where fueling is MUCH more critical.. And lastly, people have been using smaller injectors with higher base pressures for years, its nothing new, these are not magical injectors.. I will say that the bosch style injectors are better than most others out there.. BUT once again there is nothing magical about these injectors.. Its all hype, and it kinda pisses me off cause people are paying out the butt for these when they are nothing special..

Hmmmm.... well i bought into the hype... t1 and xeno are guys i trust so well see how they do... i just got to work out a few little things..

Post by **Bugermass** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:06 pm

Theres a few thread on honda-tech where tony and I and sewell have been hashing this out.. Tony only knows what his injector guy is telling him, and it makes sence to tony, BUT a friend of sewell and I is the person who was originally modding these injectors before injector dynamics started doing it..

Post by **calvin** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:38 pm

Bugermass wrote:Theres a few thread on honda-tech where tony and I and sewell have been hashing this out.. Tony only knows what his injector guy is telling him, and it makes sence to tony, BUT a friend of sewell and I is the person who was originally modding these injectors before injector dynamics started doing it..

HT hype;)

xenocron · Post by **xenocron** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:26 pm

Bugermass wrote: And lastly, people have been using smaller injectors with higher base pressures for years, its nothing new, these are not magical injectors.. I will say that the bosch style injectors are better than most others out there.. BUT once again there is nothing magical about these injectors.. Its all hype, and it kinda pisses me off cause people are paying out the butt for these when they are nothing special..

Sorry, its not hype...its better technology for our industry. If you are claiming that Paul's injectors are no better than the other people out there that are claiming they are selling the same injectors, then you can consider yourself responsible for helping to spread misinformation and degrading advancements in our industry. NO ONE, let me repeat NO ONE, has the technology and testing methods that Paul has, and this is why those who are claiming HYPE are full of fucking shizzle spewing out of their anus

Post by **Bugermass** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:16 pm

haha, well your entitled to your opinions.. I guess the F1 guys should start using paul yaws injectors then since they are so much better than anything else out there, god knows everyone had tons of problems with injectors before the bosch 880s, I mean 1000s came out.. lol . . Chris, I know your a smart guy.. But have you actually SEEN him test? Have you actually watched his methods and seen his data as he goes along?? Don't just take what paul and tony says as god rules all before you see it with your own eyes...

TopMountGSR · Post by **TopMountGSR** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:02 am

Interesting. Honestly I trust both bugermass and xenocron, as both have helped me out numerous times which in the end has helped out my customers. I had planned on getting these for my latest build on the basis that: They idle better than other 1000's No need to pig rich the idle to make it smooth Excellent partial throttle drive ability With enough fuel pressure they can flow 1400+ccs Require no injector driver box or resistor box These are just things I have been told but honestly I really don't know. I'm not sure if they are worth the expense but a lot of people seem to be having good luck with them. Any insight on what my options are would be great. 1600s are out of the question along with a 8 injector setup, I absolutely hated both sets of precision 1000s I've had. What should I do? I have a 700+whp capable setup this season.

Post by **Bugermass** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:43 am

They will do everything in your list.. They are good injectors.. My case in point is that you can get the exact same thing from Injector Clinic for less $$.. T1 charges out the ass for them and people pay cause he's honda god, without ever questioning anything.. So yes they are good injectors, but they are not made of gold, and that are not magical, and you get can them cheaper from the person who originally started modding them before anyone else..

sewell94 · Post by **sewell94** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:50 am

The new bosch injectors are badass, there's no doubting that. What bugermass is talking about, is how these injectors are tested and matched better than anyone elses.

I'm very skeptical on the low pulsewidth matching stuff, the repeatability is very questionable , ie an injector(including the id1000's) doing a 30 second low pulsewidth test, then the same injector doing the same test over coming up with more than a 5% deviation. We ran 4 ID1000 injectors 5 times, and ALL of injectors each had a variance at low pulsewidths of over 5%, and as high as 10%, over the 5 tests. I'd love to think that is was the flow bench, but i have a really hard time second guessing a $10k machine thats all its design to do is create pulsewidth to fire a set of injectors. i really doubt that our honda ecus produce a better signal than the flow bench, so where does that leave all of this. I'm all for advancing our industry, we all want better products,and it all has to start somewhere. But at this point the testing(or maybe its the products) doesn't have the reproducibility and repeatability thats required to make these tests valid from a scientific/logical view. If the tests are unreliable, how can the low pulse width matching of the injectors, which comes from the testing be considered any better.

TopMountGSR · Post by **TopMountGSR** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:11 am

Thank you all for your replies. I will check out these Injector Clinic injectors. fuelinjectorclinic.com? edit: http://www.fuelinjectorclinic.com/cgi-l ... S115-0900H $419 + shipping. Are these similar to what Tony1 quoted me at 460 shipped?

ls_dx · Post by **ls_dx** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:47 pm

Well thanks for the help guys! I dialed her back in and idles now. Set the fuel pressure to 50 and .. next step put the wideband into the pipe. and yes T1 is hondagod

xenocron · Post by **xenocron** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:30 pm

Bugermass wrote:Chris, I know your a smart guy.. But have you actually SEEN him test? Have you actually watched his methods and seen his data as he goes along?? Don't just take what paul and tony says as god rules all before you see it with your own eyes...

Of course not, but Paul Yaw has the respect of more than the measily Honda market he has somehow become a part of thanks to Tony...I am pretty certain he wouldnt stake his reputation in the community he is in to sell a few injectors. I am all about GOOD Technical Information, and so far no one else has published, verified or come out with any irrefutable data to the data and claims that Paul has...and these injectors work great, and if I could never tune another Precision, RC or other shit 30 year technology injector, I dont care if it came from Paul Yaw or Jens. As long as good information is presented and the injectors work better, I am happy. But calling something new HYPE, or claiming Paul's injectors are overpriced is bullshit, it HURTS and distracts people from the fact that these ARE better injectors. I like Jens, and ALMOST went with his injectors...and will continue to buy other injectors from him because he is a nice guy and great with service. But at the time these were coming on the scene he didnt have the info and wasn't doing the testing that Paul is. My customers are happy and they trust my judgment, so they buy these injectors from me.

sewell94 · Post by **sewell94** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:58 pm

I have alot of respect for Paul Yaw, i'll say that first. But what you said above anyone comming up with irrefutable data is almost exactly my point, I've done the testing, and what we've seen is that what hes saying isn't repeatable. I've talked to other injector people, and they say that they get the same results as what weve seen, and one of them is at a level thats much higher than what paul or jens is at. So who's been been able to verify what pauls data says about the low pulsewidth stuff? How does 1 persons tests outweigh everyone else's? Do we need to do a 5th party independant testing? I'd throw a couple bucks down on that

xenocron · Post by **xenocron** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:25 am

sewell94 wrote:I have alot of respect for Paul Yaw, i'll say that first. But what you said above anyone comming up with irrefutable data is almost exactly my point, I've done the testing, and what we've seen is that what hes saying isn't repeatable. I've talked to other injector people, and they say that they get the same results as what weve seen, and one of them is at a level thats much higher than what paul or jens is at. So who's been been able to verify what pauls data says about the low pulsewidth stuff? How does 1 persons tests outweigh everyone else's? Do we need to do a 5th party independant testing? I'd throw a couple bucks down on that

But Tom, we have talked about this...there is talking about it, coming up with a hypothesis, and then there is testing and data presentation. Publish the data, organize it correctly and make sure their are no contradictions in the matter that's presented...no one has actually done this yet, just talked about it. If Paul's claims are unfounded, its generally on the parties interested in disproving someone else's claims to present the proof, not just talk about it, spread rumors, claim hype...etc. This is more damaging to ALL parties...especially the customer as they no longer know what to believe.