Another tip-in jerking question........

relic1 · Post by **relic1** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:55 pm

A friend of mine picked up his M swap from them. it's an entirely different world when you get into EDM's. There's a lot more money flow involved. Most of their \"projects\" are cargasms waiting to happen. Note: profunction has a DD as well(all though not the AWD version) Plus they specialize in Hondas, and have an eCtune dealer license.

not trying to advertise, I'm just saying. edit: forgot to mention, the DD widebands that I've seen tended to show different readings than my PLX as well.

thething96 · Post by **thething96** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:25 pm

The shop didn't tune my car, I did, the owner was very kind enough to let me use her facilities. But yeah, the projects they have are SWEET! Really nice dyno setup. But as regards to my issue, just changed the plugs to ngk 4554's, and the car runs a lot smoother. The tip in jerking is still there, but its overall better. The car is a stock type r, why it runs better with 8's, its kinda weird!

relic1 · Post by **relic1** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:40 pm

that's a very good friend to have.

I wasn't saying that they tuned your car, I've read enough of your posts to know that you know what you're talking about, and prefer to do things yourself like the rest of us. I was hinting that mikey would be able to help you with this problem.

colder plug =typically= better for boost. found this, shed some light on plug design for me at least... (I'm a NA guy at heart, but I'm learning) http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_suppo ... p?mode=nml I also found several posts about people having better luck with 4554's. Jumping from the stock 6 to 8 seems like a big jump but if it works... I'd love to see the log to see what's going on and when. It should shed more light on things rather than just guessing. Even if your wideband is a little off, it still would be better to read in the log than the narrowband.

thething96 · Post by **thething96** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:35 pm

I will for sure log tonight and post. Originally, I thought type r's called for a 7 heat range plug from honda, and 6's are for gsr's and b16's. As far as the 4554's, those are non-eresistor, but they work ok. Would relocating the map sensor(instead of it being mounted on the tb) help with tip in? And if so, where would be a good spot? My previous integra would drive really smooth, even with stock map and iat sensors. Log will be posted tonaight. Thanks.....

relic1 · Post by **relic1** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:28 pm

If I remember correctly tipin is TPS based only. Physical MAP location should not change anything. this may sound strange, but have you tried rebuilding the cal? I've seen that fix strange problems like this, more so with JC's program, but no reason why the same can't apply here.

thething96 · Post by **thething96** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:59 pm

this may sound strange, but have you tried rebuilding the cal?

Yeah, this is actually a new map, but the prolbem still presists.... Current setup is a 98 type r, cp 10.5.1 pistons, rc 550cc's, stock exhaust, header.

David974 · Post by **David974** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:31 am

I had a look you are runing too rich lean it until 13.5 of AFR to see if help

relic1 · Post by **relic1** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:01 am

I'm not really seeing a spot that obviously shows the RPM or VSS jump or lag the throttle application. Then again it may be too subtle to see. It does seem like when you first crack the throttle the O2 shows a lean spike then it pulls to where it should be. To me this is a sign that the tipin is still too lean. But maybe it's simply a slow response time to the narrowband... What does the wideband show during this? picky critique... your Target Idle Map for ECTs seems really strange. typically moving idle is higher than idle. I usually aim for 250-300 more. pull your closed loop voltage to .47, it's currently at .76

thething96 · Post by **thething96** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:39 pm

The reason I had it at .78v is because at the usual .47 it leaned out too much for my liking. Wideband would read about 15.8 or so. At .78, wideband reads around 14.8-14.4. But you're right, the wideband also shows a lean spot, usually from 14.2afr to like 17.0. And for some reason, if i set moving idle the same as regular idle, moving idle becomes around 200-300rpm higher, and when it's cold, moving idle would be around 1800rpm. That's why those numbers look weird, that was the only way to get them somewhat stable, it's weird. Yesterday, I wired the wideband straight to d14, and the car runs much better. Had to play with the stock voltage tables for the aem wideband, but it datalogs pretty even with ectune. Afrs are more consistent, specially under close loop. I'm going nuts trying to figure out how to fix this problem. I'm thinking maybe the injector voltage changes a lot at that low throttle lean afr spot, I'll try changing that. But asides from that, this is becoming very frustrating

relic1 · Post by **relic1** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:46 pm

To me those issues you mention point to an issue with the cal, or an issue with your eCtune install. if you can, capture a datalog of it happening with the wideband in place. It will tell a lot more than the narrowband. Worst case, if you're up for it on the weekend, we could always meet up and I can take a look at it in person.

thething96 · Post by **thething96** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:31 pm

Hey thanks for the help, I really appreciate it . If by this weekend I don't get the issue solved , I will defenitely give u a buzz, I'm from aurora and I work in wheaton , so I'm all over!!!!!!!!!

thething96 · Post by **thething96** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:03 pm

I was dataloging on my way from work, which is about a 30 min drive, but me being an idiot forgot to click the record button! I changed map sensor and it didn't help at all. So, after having afrs all good after the map sensor change, I also changed the tps, and that also did nothing, wtf!!!!!! Ill post soon but is there any other settings that I should be changing, any thing else that could help, please?

Post by **Gaskleppie** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:24 am

Try to make a new rom. Save the table's and load them in a new clean program. Set all setting right and start again. It could be something in your .cal Yesterday I had a similar issue. (closed loop was working backwards!) Saved the tables, started all over again. 5 minutes work, and all was working like a charm!

thething96 · Post by **thething96** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:30 pm

Ok, will try it today. The most recent map is about 3-4 days old, started with a p30 base map. Being that it is a type r, should I start with a different map? I tried using the stock p73, but idle was very erratic. Here's another silly question, when uploading a calibration, should I select \"put base rom and cal\", or just go with\"upload cal\"? Will it make a difference? Thanks......

thething96 · Post by **thething96** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:09 pm

Ok, here's the latest cal and log.... I discovered many new details upon my search for better driveability. Tried many different calibrations. Used a p28,p30,p72,p73, and a couple I had saved up. Car seems to run better with the p30 cal, but it stills has the issue, not as bad though. Here's some conclusions..... -There seems to be a problem with the p72 code/cal. When I redid the tune with the p72 cal(both the stock and extended rpm versions), the car would run extremely rich. It would idle at about 10.2 afr, even after recalibrating stock injector to rc 550's. At first I thought I messed it up somehow, so I redid it again, but still the really rich idle presisted. After that I tried the gsr cal posted by topmountgsr, and it would still run rich. So there's definetly an issue with both p72 roms. -I tried many different setups, many different tip-in fuel trims and different low cam fuel maps, but iregardles of afr's, the jerking would still continue. One time, I had low load afr's at around 12.0, then when steadly increasing throttle, it would go from 12.0 to about 14.2 and the car would still jerk. I noticed that the jerking wasn't always related to afr's. If im at around 15%tps, and steadly increase throttle, the afr's would be at around 14.0 and go to like 15.7, but it wouldn't jerk, it does it at lower throttle %. -Noticed that messing with tip-in ignition helps. If I let tip-in ignition untouched, the car has issues between 1500-2500rpm, but canceling tip-in ignition makes the car have higher issues in between 2000-3000rpm. Also, the jerking is more noticeable on 4th and specially on 5th gear. It will have issues all the way till 4500rpm, but more noticeable in between 2000-3000rpm. -Even when changing map and tps sensors, and recalibrating tps, things didn't get any better. I had a feeling those two might have something to do with it, but apperantly not..... -I'm probably the most computer/software user illeterate person in this forum, but it seems to me that my version of ectune might have some problems.I really don't understand how this software works that well, but I'm assuming that afr's might be determined by some sensors, something like load x tps=afr. I'm thinking that ectune does the math depending on the existing load ,and depending on how fast throttle increments are, will yield an x amount of fuel. I uninstalled and reinstalled ectune, just for the heck of it, but no bueno. These are my thoughts. Please shed some lighton the issue and hopefully this problem gets resolved. It's becoming too much of an bothersome issue, it's frustrating to the point that I'm thinking of taking the chipped ecu out, putting the stock injectors, and say \"the f*ck with this car\"..........