No closed loop, oversaturated injectors, AFR reading issues

Dodo Bizar · Post by **Dodo Bizar** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:00 am

Until last week I drove around with a version 34 rom which worked perfectly. Recently my Tuner (CRX2) updated me to version 46. Doing that; rev limit was increased from 7800 to 8100 and a few fuel maps were adjusted, thats it. My car is a D14A3 engine with D16Y8 head, putting 135-140 bhp between 7500 and 7800 rpm or something alike. Probably smallest eCtune controlled engine? However after 1/1.5 years of good eCtune performance now 3 problems arise, 1: ) First of all the mixture is not close loop controlled, but stays in open loop. Closed loop is not disabled and ECT is over 75C (barely over it, but hoovers around 78-82 normally). My TPS is low enough by far and MAP is also under its boundary.... but from datalogging I can see that still AFR remains fixed in its open loop position and no attempt is made to go to closed loop. 2: ) I am not sure how I call my second bug. It is about the enrichment of the fuelmixture when abruptly accelerating. It enriches far too much. I know this enriching behaviour is normal, but when I look in my old datalogs I see an enrichment of about 10-20% compared to target normal value. Since the new chip this enrichment is 50-100% and the engine stalls for a second (there is my problem) due to the overload on fuel (injector duty goes to 90-120%!). This tipically happens when revving constant between 4500-7000 and suddenly accelerating (non VTEC and VTEC). Can I find these settings somewere in the logger or what is known about it? 3: ) This problem is about the datalogger itself and might not be a problem at all. My engine was hot, but only drove it for about 20min. The AFR readings in the low MAP regions were perfect, however when I started WOT measurements (to see what caused the behaviour described under problem 2), the AFR readings in the tables are not there (in the past it was never a problem). However ECT dropped to exactly 75 at some points, still I expect some AFR readings at the high MAP regions, but nothing came in this time. Mayby I overlook a condition that is not met? I did use the newest datalogger version, mayby that is involved as well? All help is appreciated very much.

Post by **calvin** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:28 am

46 is a old rom we have 54 now btw. 1) closeloop works. Look in the log, closeloop short/long trim. Try idle for a long time and see if the trims go up/down. Send your calibration for me please. 2) Tps tipin adjustment? I don't log tps tipin value. Can you post a screenshot what you mean. 3) Check settings-> overall for condition when to record an afr reading.

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:08 pm

I have noticed that if your rich, and you have a rich tip-in, you could possibly see lean... in the same respect that if you calibrate your injectors, and go past rich, you will end up lean again and not flooding the motor....

Dodo Bizar · Post by **Dodo Bizar** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:28 am

I noticed that 54 was there in the offline logger

. 1: ) Long trim is zero, but short trim indeed is working, you can see it at the beginning of the screenshot that it is working indeed yes. About the idling, there is one personal problem... I am ill at home for over a week and since the chip got here I only drove 3/4 times with a total of less than 45 min. So mayby I just need to run a little more with the car before I should start complaining? I am able to go out today and make some kms, so if that could clarify things I might do that. Calibration file should be attached. But is the behaviour of closed loop changed? I am used to AFR values hoovering over 14.7 with a period of 0.5 to 2 sec. Are PID settings (or whatever controller is used) changed since rom 46? 2: ) Same screenshot, 3 tipin attempts in 3rd gear, 1st non-VTEC, 2nd and 3rd VTEC. You can see the INJ duty and later the response of the wideband. Normally the peak I saw was much lower (about 10 to 20%), now the peak seems too big to me and the engine does stall for a sec. The sudden loss of VTEC in the second attempt is due to the VTEC reset threshold is passed during the engine stall. 3: ) Yes thank you! My ECT threshold was at 79, but it dropped below. Correcting the treshold solved it. Engine was 20/25 min. running at that time, but low loads.

CRX2 · Post by **CRX2** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:20 pm

What causes the spikes on the IGN Final signal? Can you see those spikes also in other signals in your log?

Dodo Bizar · Post by **Dodo Bizar** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:03 pm

I can not find the spikes in any other signal. The IGN Table values are not spiked. Instead the spikes you see match IGN table. The rest is somewhat lower. And even weirder, all ignition corrections like ECT, IAT etc. are also 0. So I don't see were the difference comes from anyway. I only see it at low loadings...

Post by **Gaskleppie** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:02 am

I checked a datalog I made yesterday and found no strange final ign spikes. I think that the conversion from the old to the new rom went bad. Maybe you can try this: Take your old calibration and safe only the tables. Then start with a new rom and only import these tables. You will have to set al the other settings by hand. An other possibility is that the map signal is reading the hidden 11th column. This can be if the map signal is higher than 1030mbar. You can uncover the 11th column and set it the same as the 10th.

Dodo Bizar · Post by **Dodo Bizar** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:55 am

Spikes are at low load, readings are not from 10th column were spikes show. CRX2: lets try making a new chip this way?

CRX2 · Post by **CRX2** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:05 am

I shall look into the logs I made a long time ago with the same settings. See if there are spikes to. @Dodo: Japdag?

Post by **Gaskleppie** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:05 am

Ah! I see..... Its at idle. The only thing what can be happening at idle is the ign correction based on the target idle. When Idle is a bit higher or lower than the target it will correct the ign a bit. See the tables in the idle settings. But if I look at the revs, that wont be the case either...

Dodo Bizar · Post by **Dodo Bizar** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:44 pm

What I was doing is keeping the revs constant in 3rd gear. About 90-140 km/h I was driving. Set the revs constant at some value around 4500-7000 and suddenly put the throttle. @CRX2: japdag is fine. I do trust the WOT behaviour so dynotesting will be done coming wednesday and sprints next sunday I will perform with it. But daily driving is a little bit eary, especially with regard to fuel consumption.

Post by **Gaskleppie** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:41 pm

Ah x2.....

I read your post again and its all clear to me now. Thats a nasty lean condition after tip-in! Try to make a new rom. This is no normal behavior. There must be something wrong in your rom.

CRX2 · Post by **CRX2** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:49 pm

Gaskleppie wrote:must be something wrong in your rom.

"Omgevallen bitje"

I will make a new ROM.

Dodo Bizar · Post by **Dodo Bizar** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:30 am

Okay, problem 3 solved and problem 2 might be solved with a new rom, could this also solve problem 1 or is number one not a problem but a change in closed loop behaviour?

Post by **Gaskleppie** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:12 am

I also noticed a difference in Closed loop behavior. You can see this very well when you set your revs to 3000rpm at standstill (dutch smog test method). The closed loop is behaving quit rough at this point. I think that this is changed since the moment that the closed loop is made ready for running with a wideband. I really dont know which rom version that was. I do know that the smog test should be no problem with a closed loop like this. The average must be good and higher peak values are no reason to fail the test.