Someone help me read my plugs?

confUsed · Post by **confUsed** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:53 pm

Good to hear, maybe I'm getting a little closer

At the very first pictures my wideband was showing about 11.5 afr, but I had more timing. And I did try a lot of different maps on those plugs before I took the pictures, so I guess it could have been old specs, IDK how long they are visible...? This is a stock bottom end engine that I'm using at the circuit track, though, so I think I want to be a bit on the rich side, to have some room. I just want it to last for a little while, its not important to get every whp out of it. But of course its not nescessary to be too conservative, so if its looking a little too rich, i can try to take out some fuel and do some pulls tomorrow

Oh, and I did a quick compression test in cyl#1 that looked like it was burning some oil, and it turned out good, so hopefully its not too bad. No smoking to see from exhaust yet either. Edit: The explanation of why the tip is white is interesting, though. A couple of my friends are just looking at the tip and telling me I'm too lean. Now I know why

confUsed · Post by **confUsed** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:06 pm

So I took a look at my plugs today through a magnifying glass, and discovered small black specs. Cant catch them through the camera lens, though. So I tried pulling timing, and adding fuel again, but cant get them to go away. And suddenly my wastegate started creeping from 11psi to 13 degrees (can this be caused by lots of fuel and late timing?). So now I'm kinda stuck. Just cant understand why my engine looks like its so much more prone to detonating than anyone elses d16

Post by **Bugermass** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:45 pm

black specs are generally caused by fuel splash, shiny metal specs are from detonation.. If you've pulled that much timing to where your boost creeping your probably way to retard.

confUsed · Post by **confUsed** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:10 pm

So small black specs is not nescessary bad(didnt look like it hat metal in it to me)? Thats kinda making me feel a little lost again, cause thats the only sign of detonation I have seen up to this pont (except maybe the very first pictures). I have never heard anything wich occurs to me as detonation, thorough my detcans or just my ears. I think I'll just go ahead and load the map I had during the last pictures (which was quite rich), and go to a trackday tomorrow and see what hapens there. I'll take pics of my plugs after that and see what it looks like

Post by **Bugermass** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:04 pm

I took some pics of a set of plugs I did like 4-5 runs on, on a boosted B16 I'll post so you can see what they should look like when the tune is dead on.. I just gotta get them off my buddies camera

Post by **calvin** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:27 pm

post them please

combz · Post by **combz** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:55 am

Bugermass wrote:black specs are generally caused by fuel splash, shiny metal specs are from detonation.. If you've pulled that much timing to where your boost creeping your probably way to retard.

so your saying if your timing is retarded too much it can cause boost creep? I never heard of this before, can you explain a bit more. This is a great thread btw..

Post by **Bugermass** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:34 am

yes, if your timming is too retard it can act like antilag in a way, fuel still burning while its exiting the exhuast port, this will create excessive exhaust energy (backpressure), ( more than the wastegate discharge) and this will cause the turbo to creep. This is especially noticable on smaller turbos.

confUsed · Post by **confUsed** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:54 pm

You were right about the timing causing the boost creep. I gave it 3 degrees more and it was stable again. Today I went to a event and finally got to drive the car hard again

I didnt notice any pinging or knocking with my ears, and the car acted great, without cracking my manifold. I had tuned it pretty rich before this, though, to hopefully have some room. I was at 10.5ish in boost. I pulled the plugs after the final round, and the result is under (I had to let the car idle for a couple of minutes, though. Everything was pretty hot). I'm totally happy with how my car moves now, so this is just to ask you guys if it looks OK and seems like something I drive pretty safely around in, until I build my engine (and probably get it tuned on a dyno). I honestly dont know whatthe white stuff on plug#1 is. I noticed it first now when I looked at the pictures. Might be dust or something that attached to the plug when I pulled it, cause its on the groundstrap too (specs after detonation attaches to the porcelain, right?) #1:

#2

#3

#4

confUsed · Post by **confUsed** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:29 pm

Anyone? Too crappy pictures? Tired of my rambling?

BTW, does it need to be a band new plug to read the blue line (I guess yes?) Looks a little like my #1 is more advanced than the rest, maybe...?

Post by **Bugermass** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:35 pm

Those look alot better to me, you seem to be on the right track.. I was gonna post the pics, but friend was suppoed to email me them once he got them off his camera and he hasn't yet..

JaredKaragen · Post by **JaredKaragen** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:54 pm

fuel onn3 seems a little richer than the others.......

Post by **Synoptic** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:13 am

looks good. if you see AF in the low 10's, mabe your wideband is not calibrated properly..

confUsed · Post by **confUsed** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:25 am

OK, thats nice to hear

It seems to me like the strap on #1 has been hotter than the rest, but thats maybe just me? I'll be buying a new set of plugs soon anyway, so I'll look closer then. It would have been interesting to see those pics you are talking about, Burgermass. So if you get them it would be awesome if you post them

I have calibrated the wb quite a few times, but it keeps reading the same values, and it says 22.7 o2 when its hanging in the air, so IDK whats up with it. I'll try a new sensor soon and see if it makes any difference. One thing I'd like to ask... If theres slight detonation at lets say 4000 rpm, and I shut of the engine at 7000 rpm, will there still be specs on the porcelain? If I'm doing a track session for 15 minutes and have slight detonation at some points, will there still be possible to see it on the plugs after I let the car cool down at idle for some minutes?

ncturbocivic · Post by **ncturbocivic** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:21 am

Shouldnt your WBO2 be reading 20.xx in free air? I know mine reads 20.8 on CAL at 29.92 @400ish feet elevation. If I am not mistaken, once you are past the event that you suspect detonation has occured, you have removed the trace of it from the plug. The plug would only reflect what happened at that exact moment in the cylinder. Again, sorry if this is misinformation,please correct me if I am wrong.